Author Topic: Bizarre Vatsim Flight  (Read 1419 times)

Offline Aharon Dayan 1090798

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Bizarre Vatsim Flight
« on: January 25, 2017, 10:06:00 PM »
Shalom and greetings all my pals,

I had experienced most bizzarre episode during one of the Vatsim flights this year.

Whenever I flew thousands of Vatsim flights in past 8 years, all the Vatsim controllers were very nice to me. When I was getting closer to an airport of arrival, the center controllers always asked me if I have charts. I usually replied "No charts because I like to follow heading orders from controllers".  The center controllers always said "No problem" or "No problem.  Descent at your discreet to FL110 by XXXX (imaginary waypoint) and heading 231 after XXXX."

When approach controllers asked me if I had charts, I always said "No charts because I like to follow heading orders from controllers".  If approach controllers said something like "descent to 10,000 ft and used DSC4 arrival (imaginary arrival procedure),  I always said "affirm to d/m to 10k but no charts because I liked to follow heading orders from controllers".  The approach controllers always said "no problem".

This has been going on without problem for 8 years even in thousands of very tough Vatsim events that I participated in.

When I was flying to an airport (I will not reveal name of airport as any of you can guess and pinpoint who the controller was), I got call from Center controller who asked me to contact him.  After contacting him on his frequency and flying for while in his or her airspace (not revealing gender of the controller so you cannot guess who), the center controller said "descent to FL110 and use xxxx4 arrival" (not reveling name of arrival), I said "affirm to FL110 but no charts."  He said "why no charts?" I said "I like to follow heading and altitude orders from the controllers".  The center controller said "you cannot fly without charts!!!" as if he was creating implication that pilots were not allowed to fly on Vatsim without charts.  I replied "well I like and prefer to take heading orders from controllers"  He replied "I do not want to babysit you. Go to this link and get charts.  Do you understand the problem?".

Does the center controller have right to tell pilots ""I do not want to babysit you. Go to this link and get charts.  Do you understand the problem?"."? Since we vatsim pilots are NOT allowed to argue with controllers, I just said Yes  Affirm Yes to the center controller's complaints.

It never happened to me in thousands of flights on Vatsim and all controllers always said to me past years "no problem no problem".

Did I do something wrong?


Offline Gray Taylor 1041931

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Re: Bizarre Vatsim Flight
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 05:15:06 AM »
Aharon, you didn't do anything wrong. I am, however, concerned that you're missing the point of VATSIM. Controllers put in a lot of work, writing SOPs, developing software, honing their skill. VATSIM is a community of people who want to simulate real-world aviation and air traffic control. If you're just on VATSIM to demand vectors from every controller you come across, then you're not really contributing to the COMMUNAL atmosphere of self-improvement that makes VATSIM so great. That controller was DEAD WRONG in his handling of the situation. At the same time, it's true: we don't want to babysit you. It's not fun for either party.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 05:17:48 AM by Gray Taylor 1041931 »

Offline Aharon Dayan 1090798

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Re: Bizarre Vatsim Flight
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 03:20:11 PM »
At the same time, it's true: we don't want to babysit you.

This is what you are wrong.  That is why Vatsim controllers and Vatsim experts told me that they were very angry at the controller for telling me that same offending "babysitting" sentence because Vatsim does not require use of SIDS and STARS. Vatsim experts and Vatsim controllers told me that under no circumstance can a controller refuse to provide services such as radar vectors, etc on the basis that any pilot does not have charts. That's one of the responsibilities of a radar controller is to ensure safe, expeditious transitions of flights...and that usually means issuing radar vectors at some point in every flight.

If you're just on VATSIM to demand vectors from every controller you come across, then you're not really contributing to the COMMUNAL atmosphere

This is what you are wrong again.  Demanding vectors?????????  Many airports in the world do not have ILS and require visual approach therefore require vectors from controllers and you call it demanding vectors??  KDCA requires vectoring all the time.

You might want to reconsider your statement accusing any pilot of not really contributing to the COMMUNAL atmosphere simply because  a pilot does not have charts based on the important fact that Vatsim does NOT require use of SIDS and STARS and all controllers are required to provide vectors if necessary or if asked or if an airport's operational conditions require such as KDCA.

By letting everybody know about the controller's bizzarre ATC coverage, I am certainly contributing to the COMMUNAL atmosphere of self-improvement that makes VATSIM so great because everybody is going to call that controller and explain the rules to him while reminding him never to tell anybody the babysitting sentence or reminding him never to force anyone in middle of flight and runway approach to go to website to get charts while on 4 minutes from the runway. I am making that controller become a better controller that will result into self-improvement for Vatsim.

Regards,

Aharon








Offline Toby Turlington 916072

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Re: Bizarre Vatsim Flight
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 09:40:37 PM »
And we are going to stop this right here.

VATSIM in itself is a learning environment. Some individuals are hardcore realist, some are here for the enjoyment and some are here for a sneak peak into what real life could be like. We are all aviation enthusiast in some level. While some folks do work in the aviation industry from airport ground crew, mechanic, pilot, controller to FIR/ARTCC management, some folks also do not.
Only the VATSIM Pilot him/herself has the decision on how far to go into real world procedures as they wish. With the links provided below, VATSIM has made it clear on what they expect for minimum requirements for a pilot.

https://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre/vatsim-basics/expectations-and-requirements-pilots

https://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre/vatsim-basics/vatsim-personnel
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 09:42:42 PM by Toby Turlington 916072 »
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